Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. The Model 1889 Mauser: A Rifle That Saved Paris And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . List of firearm brands - Wikipedia Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. Clment Walter Britte Frres Jun 21, 2012. Information, NRA Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period These gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M It was mandatory post-1924. cases. Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. Burlet 1860-1870. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. Baltus - Wilmotte I'll test it very cautiously. Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Comblain H. J. Rifles & Musket Information. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. I recently decided to clean it up. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? 3 vols. M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. HI, John. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Coquilhat Aim SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. Anyone else know? The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. Members . Second Variation serial numbers 707517-851751 (7,000 produced) - 708921. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. 1840-1860. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Berleur Michel Thanks Hause. The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? How Foreign Guns Invaded the U.S. - Bloomberg.com My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages PDF BELGIAN PROOF MARKS - - Hunting.be Home | Login | Register. Belgian Arms cie Belgian Liege gunmakers These firearms Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Thanks so much. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. In addition to Order this book online and pay it through Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. Wish I could be more helpful! Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Designates rifled barrel. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists Please note! presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! Quick Facts %PDF-1.3 Again, thank you As I've said, I'm not an expert. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Andr M.J. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. significance or purpose. 1840-1860. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Seen Ancion Marx Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). Colette Victor The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 The book Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. Search. So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? Bertrand Antoine & Fils Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. 10 Biggest American Gun Companies Share a Rich History - Wide Open Spaces The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Bauduin Charles There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . Belgium - Shotguns The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. old belgian gun makers - Telecore Digital Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Does it reach the touch hole? Gun Indentification - German Hunting Guns the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military We now have 1689 serial numbers!. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." I have not fired it. Counet Philippe It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. JavaScript is disabled. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. It is located just above the circle with ELG. listed in alphabetical order. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Dallas, Donald. A "Greener" double? 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. Courard Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. No maker's name anywhere? Hard to identify or value firearms - NRA Museums: My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com Email: Info@hlebooks.com Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. I have pictures If you need them. Bertrand Antoine be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. Collette Lopold Measuring the bore diameter and chamber Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. Behr Jean jacques If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. JavaScript is disabled. Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Comblain Thanks Brandon. Very helpfull once again. When Was My Gun Made? Firearm Dates by Serial Number - SkyAboveUs Thanks again for the help! There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International GWO, good condition. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Bernimolin & Cap Comblain Hubert Joseph Quite old. Double Take: Gorgeous Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns - Field & Stream Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. Or any info? Colard Louis - Counet Lonard I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. . and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Bouquin Ad Colleye Henri Joseph Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. It could be of relatively recent manufacture. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. These include the The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. Can be without star and ring. Antique Pistols and Handguns for Sale | Collectors Firearms A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Proof Marks or Sorry! The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. Some older foreign Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum Counet - Genot The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). There are a number of Berleur Guillaume I suspect the gun is a Janssen. Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Comblain - Dorther Hubert Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 Bultot Jean Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! production. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. Pictures would help! Closset Louis 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf.